What Your Anger Is Really Saying

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Steven: My teacher, Junpo, once looked
directly at us and said a line that, to be

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honest, I've never been able to put down.

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He said, "I've never known an
angry person who did not care."

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And just sit with that for a second.

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So you think about it, every angry person
you ever met, every time you've lost

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your own temper, underneath it there has
been something you cared deeply about

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So here is the question that can
take the wind out of almost any

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row that I use, if I remember.

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Next time someone is angry at you,
instead of defending yourself, instead

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of putting your guard up, try this.

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Say to them, "I can see you care.
Tell me why. Tell me why it matters so

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much to you." And watch what happens.

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The anger has nowhere to go because
you have walked round the bodyguard.

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You have spoken directly to
the thing it was guarding

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Hello, I'm Steven Webb, and this is
Stillness in the Storms, the podcast

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that helps you find some, just some of
that firm ground in difficult times.

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No fluff, no quick fixes, just honest,
down-to-earth wisdom from someone who

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living it every single day, same as you

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But just before we get into it, let me
say a proper thank you to the people who

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This time it's Alice, Kim up in
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along with a few kind people
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Thank you.

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And including one wonderfully
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quietly, I gotta be honest.

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And to the regulars who keep this
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like Laura, and Stuart, and so many
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You are the reason it stays free.

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Sue, Jade, Jenna, and Mia, and
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Lovely to have you with us all.

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So there are others.

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You are awesome.

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If you would like to join them
or you've got something on your

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mind or an idea for meditation,
just head over to stevenwebb.uk.

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It's in the show notes,
and I always do answer.

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So let's get on with the podcast.

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I've … So hot over in the UK and
Europe at the moment, but we're here.

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We're showing up.

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as you know, I love analogies, and
it just puts something in my brain

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that just makes more sense to me.

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If it's a wall of text or a diagram,
I find it really hard to understand.

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But when someone puts up an analogy,
I'm like, "Oh, I get it now. Now it

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ma- makes sense." So a good analogy
I've always used for anger is a hammer.

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You know, the hammer is anger,
and used correctly in your

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toolbox, it's an incredible tool.

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Used incorrectly, used to do
damage, used to smash things down

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when they're not supposed to be
done, then it's a terrible tool.

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You're using it in the wrong way.

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Above all, it's not the tool's fault,
but you need a tool in your toolbox.

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A- and I think having … becoming that
calmer person that you no longer have that

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anger in your toolbox, you're not whole.

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Your toolbox is not whole.

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All your emotions are not complete in
a way that makes us brilliant humans.

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To throw away the hammer and go,
"I'm, I'm never gonna get angry again.

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I'm never gonna get frightened again.

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I'm never gonna get anxious again,"
you're throwing away incredibly

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evolved emotions that have done
incredible things in the past.

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Without people being angry, we would
never have a better voting system.

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Without people being angry,
nothing would ever change.

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Without people being angry, we
would never develop democracy.

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Without being … people being
angry, we'll never improve on the

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democracy that seems to be going
a bit sideways at the moment.

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But you should be angry
at starving children.

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You should be angry at abuses
and all that, that hu- hurt

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humans or animals or the planet.

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There's nothing wrong with that anger.

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It's what you do with it.

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There's nothing wrong with a hammer.

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It's what you do with it.

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So you learn to pick it up and use
it when it's there in the right way.

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It's a brilliant tool

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The problem with anger is that as
children, when children get angry,

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you know, the, the terrible twos
where they're angry about frustration,

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like, okay, they're not angry
about world issues or democracy.

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They're angry because you turned up with
a red T-shirt and they wanted a green

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one, and you've destroyed their world,
or they're hungry and they wanted,

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I don't know, an ice cream before
going to bed, and all the things in

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the world says you shouldn't do that.

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They're angry because you're
destroying their world.

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So it's uncomfortable for us.

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We don't like to see our children
angry, so as a way of guarding that,

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we try to not let them be angry.

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We try to prevent that.

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"Come on, calm down. You don't have
to be angry." Ang- and they learn

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that anger is a bad thing, and I don't
think anybody teaches us that out

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of knowing that they're not actually
helping the situation longer term.

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It's the best way of dealing with
it as they see fit because anger l-

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very often leads to terrible things.

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We don't very often do these
terrible things when we're not angry.

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You know, we just wouldn't do it.

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We wouldn't say those horrible words.

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We wouldn't say those things that
we learn to regret, those horrible

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names, or I would hope people
wouldn't say it out of calmness.

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There is people that do, but
that's a different story,

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probably a different podcast.

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But on the anger side, anger is what
makes us do so many things the spur of

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the moment because we're not used to it.

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That child doesn't wanna kick their
mum, but they do it out of anger

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because they've got this feeling
of rage that's overwhelming them.

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It's a good thing sometimes.

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You, you need that overwhelming because
if you're gonna stand there and try

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hugging the bear in the forest for 300,000
years, you ain't gonna do very well.

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"Oh, just stay calm. Don't worry about
it. It's only a bear." That doesn't work.

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But sometimes we're … Well,
most of the time we're not with

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that bear in the forest anymore.

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So-

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That word that we just look up and
say and that moment that we make

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everything so much worse because we
haven't learned to deal with the anger.

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Anger is just information.

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Anger is telling us something.

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Anger comes from a certain place

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Which leads me onto the bodyguard,
because that's what anger is.

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Anger is the bodyguard that steps
in and says, "I'm gonna sort this.

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I'm gonna make sure this
doesn't happen again.

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I'm gonna put the justices right.

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I'm gonna make sure no one parks in
my space," or, "How dare they do that?

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I'm gonna make sure they
don't say that again.

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How dare they betray us?

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How dare they treat us in that
way?" All of these things, and

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there's something softer underneath.

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It's, anger is always the second feeling.

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I cannot imagine … I … Please
enlighten me in the comments or message

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me where anger is not a second feeling,
because there's always something

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deeper underneath it, a hurt, a fear,
a being unseen or something like that

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Jampal's always taught us that
beneath it there's a fear, a

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sadness, and a deep caring.

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You care about something, and
if you don't know how to fix

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the situation, you get angry.

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Fair enough.

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I care about kids starving.

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I get angry about it
if I see it on the TV.

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Sometimes I might wanna turn the
TV off or turn it over because it's

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painful, and that anger just … And
I think, "What can I do about it?"

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And it builds, and it's horrible, and it's
almost paralyzing But anger can lead to

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the most intense clarity

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And ultimately, no one can make you angry.

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Yeah.

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Whenever I say that, th- there's always
something in me, that little voice

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inside of me goes, "Really? Do you
believe that, Steven? Do you really

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believe that?" Well, I think I do.

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When I think about it in the cold
light of day, I do believe that.

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No one can ever really make you angry.

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It's a feeling that is chosen
after the feeling of deep caring.

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There's a reaction.

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The reaction is yours.

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Now, here's the thing.

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Sometimes we get so angry so quick,
or we tend to stay on the edge of

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anger for so much of the time that
there's almost no time between

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what happens and when we're angry.

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If you're always in that fight/flight
frame of mind, if you're always ready,

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if you're living in a situation where
things can go wrong very, very quickly,

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then there's very little time between
what happens and then the reaction.

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And I do it with my daughter
because I'm emotionally charged

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when it comes to my daughter and
my family and different things.

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I'm much more likely to
snap at them, shout at them.

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I … We had a bit of a disagreement
about something last night, me and

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my parents, and we didn't fall out
or anything, but I got quite teasy.

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They got quite teasy, and we was
like … Well, we weren't shouting at

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each other, but we were frustrated.

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I was feeling that they weren't
respecting me, they weren't

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I wasn't being heard.

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But I wasn't thinking that at the time.

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I was just thinking, "You're wrong,
and I'm right." But I care deeply that

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they hear me, and they give me some
credit for some of the knowledge I know.

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But meanwhile, I wasn't
doing the same to them.

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So again, it comes that back to
that deep caring about something.

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We care if someone says something.

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We care if the words hurt

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So there is a gap between
that spark and that fire.

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Doesn't have to lead to
a full-blown argument.

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It can lead to, "Okay, I really
care here. What can I do about it?"

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If there is something really
practical you can do about it,

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take a step back, go and do that.

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But it's very rarely
practical to shout and scream.

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And see, this is what,
where meditation steps in.

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Meditation gives you a gap between what
is arising, what you're feeling, what

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you're seeing in this moment, what your,
what a thought is, the train that arrives.

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So instead of sitting there on the
bench, going back to my analogy that

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I've used recently, if you're sitting
on the bench and you're not thinking

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about the trains and all that's coming
in, the thoughts that are coming in,

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if a train that you really don't like
comes in and it triggers you, you're

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gonna jump to anger straight away.

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But if you're sitting there being aware
that the train might not be one you like,

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that that person might say something
you're not gonna like, you can be

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ready and go, "Okay, it's not about me.

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It's more about them." We can be
ready and go, "Do you know what?

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Well, I'm just not
gonna get on that train.

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I'm just not going to rise to this anger."

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And we're all capable of it.

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This is what our awakened mind
does, and you're all capable of

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it because me, you, and everybody
you know has been able to respond

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wisely sometimes, or at least once.

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So therefore, you are capable of wise
response, deep heart-mind, as Mondo Zen

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would say, which is Junpo's teaching.

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You know, come from deep heart-mind.

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Don't come from the head that's
angry or the heart that's angry.

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There's no space there for wisdom.

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and there is a question that
disarms this for them and yourself.

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So if someone's really angry and getting
in your face, if someone's really trying

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to make a point and you're not listening,
and you're trying to defend your position

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and you're not So nobody's listening.

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If you're both defending, if you're both
coming out fighting, no one's listening.

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You know, there's no point in fighting
your side if the other side are not

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listening or they're fighting their side.

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There's no brain power for the two things.

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But what I will say is you can look up
and go, "I see you care deeply Tell me

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why. Tell me why it matters to you. You
can say, "Look, I'll, I'll shut up a

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minute, and I know why it matters to me,
but I don't know why it matters to you.

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Please explain." And I think
when we do that, it just takes

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the heat out of the moment.

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It, it brings in a bit of wisdom
and a bit of heart and a bit

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of kindness and compassion.

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You cannot meet anger with anger
and expect everything to be okay.

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Look at the political situation at
the moment in the UK, in some of

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Europe, and in America at the moment.

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We're meeting anger with anger.

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We're meeting name-calling
with name-calling.

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We're meeting ignorance with more
ignorance and more ignorance.

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Instead of going, "Okay, why do you
care deeply about this? What is so

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important about this?" And I tell you
what you'll find again and again, because

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I sit down and have a cup of tea with
members of, like, Reform, which in the

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UK are very much right of right, um,
and Conservatives and Green members.

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I'm a Liberal Democrat, so
I'm kind of in the middle.

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And when I sit down with them and we have
a cup of tea, if politics comes up, it's

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very often it feels like we're miles apart
and we both want to defend our position.

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And when you just say, "Explain to
me why that matters to you or why

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you think that way," nearly always
it'll come back to that caring.

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It'll come back to that important
reason, maybe from their past.

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Maybe they got a fear of
the future or something.

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Maybe that car park space down the road
that they park in front of their house

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and don't like anybody doing that.

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I think there's loads of places like that.

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I get loads of emails about people
not being able to park in front of

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their houses, and we've had a problem
in this road for many decades.

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And I do think, "Why is it important
to them?" And sometimes it's because

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they might have a disability.

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Sometimes it's because they're fearful of
something and they need that escape route.

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Sometimes it's about nothing to
do with a car park space at all.

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It's about trying to show some authority
because they haven't been listened to.

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Who knows?

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The truth is everybody cares,
and it's getting down to that

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bottom bit of what they care about

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And finally, before I hand off for this
week, and Junpo always said, used to

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say this, and I, I think as time goes
on, I understand it more and more.

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"Your angst is your liberation."
So where we've got that tight knot,

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where we're angry, where we're res-
reacting instead of responding,

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that's where our liberation is.

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If we can deal with the reaction by
creating more space between what's arising

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and what we care deeply about and our
anger reaction, what we do with the hammer

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Then ultimately we'll have a lot
more peace in life and a lot better

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conversations, a lot deeper conversations.

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We might actually realize that in
politics we're not that far apart.

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We might actually realize in whether
it's race or all the other things, we

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might dislike a certain type of food, but
ultimately we all care about kindness.

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We all care about love, and we
all care about each other, and we

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don't want people to die ultimately

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We don't want people to suffer

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And I think when we get beyond the
anger and put the hammers down when

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we're using them in that way, that's
where things really start to change

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So, so here is what I will leave you with.

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Your anger is not your enemy.

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It is a frightened part of you
in armor doing the only job it's

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ever learnt, keeping something
soft from being hurt again.

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And it does not need banishing.

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It needs hearing.

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It needs listening to.

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It needs understanding.

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And the moment it is truly heard,
it tends to lay down its armor.

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It tends to stop fighting.

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So next time the heat rises, I'm not
talking about the heat in the UK and

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here at the moment, but next time the
heat rises, before you do anything

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with it, try one quiet question.

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Not who is it to blame?

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Just what am I really trying to protect?

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And always remember Junpo's line

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You only get angry about
what you care deeply about.

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So somewhere in there is something
you love, something you care

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about, and the same for them.

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I have recorded a short
meditation to go with this one.

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It's over on Inner Peace Meditations,
and it's called Space Before You React.

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A few minutes of practicing exactly
this, finding the gap, meeting the

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heat, meeting the anger, meeting
that cindo or that spark before it

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runs the show, before it takes over.

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And sit with it once or twice a day,
or just once or twice this week.

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. It would do way more than
just talking about it.

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Understanding it philosophically,
that's one thing.

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Understanding it in your heart and living
from it is a differ- different story.

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So that is what your
anger is really saying.

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I'm Steven Webb, and thank you and
everybody who keeps this going.

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If you can, please follow
the show and leave a review,

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especially on Apple or Spotify.

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That really does make a huge difference.

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I do always get to read them.

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Might take me a little time, but
I do always get to read them.

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And thank you so much and take care.

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That … Just be kind to yourself.

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Be kind to your anger.

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Don't throw it out.

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And I love you