Links to Steven Webb’s podcast and how you can support his work.
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Sometimes the most loving thing we can do is stay close without stepping in too quickly.
This week I want to talk about one of the hardest forms of love: giving someone space. Not walking away. Not going cold. Not pretending we do not care. But staying close without taking over.
It came up for me while talking with my daughter, noticing how quickly I wanted to jump in with answers, advice, solutions and opinions. And I could see the same thing in myself, in council meetings, in family conversations, and even in the way I meet my own thoughts and feelings. Something arises and I want to fix it before I have really heard it.
But space is not neglect. Real space says: I am here. I trust you. Take your time.
In this episode, I explore why the instinct to help is not wrong, but why fixing too quickly can sometimes be about easing our own discomfort. We look at the small pause after a feeling appears, the gap between notes in music, the three seconds before we answer, and the strange wisdom that often appears when we stop crowding the moment.
Key topics:
- Why giving space is not the same as walking away
- The urge to fix the people we love, especially our children
- How a few seconds of pause can let wisdom appear
- Thoughts, feelings and body sensations that do not need an instant story
- The gap between the notes, and why space gives life meaning
- Council meetings, family tables, and the need to prove we know something
- Asking whether we are helping or reducing our own discomfort
- The three second rule for conversations, emotions and difficult moments
Companion meditation: IPM 105, Giving Space. A gentle Zen influenced meditation using the image of a closed shed and an open field to feel the difference between being crowded by what arises and giving it room to be seen clearly.
If this episode meant something to you, please share it, leave a review, or treat me to a coffee: stevenwebb.uk
With thanks this week to: Cheryl, Nitya, Yvonne, Eleanor and Ryan, Karen, Lani, Jess and Stuart.
And thank you to the kind anonymous souls and everyone who supports the work quietly in the background. You keep this podcast advert-free. Thank you.
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Steven: This week I want to talk
about one of the hardest forms of
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love, and that's giving someone space.
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Not walking away, not going cold,
not pretending we don't care, but
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staying close without taking over.
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And I mean this for ourselves as well.
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It's that urge to step in
and try to fix and help.
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I'm Steven Webb, and welcome to Stillness
in the Storms, the podcast that helps you
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have a little peace when you need it most.
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How are you doing?
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And sorry I missed last week, but I have
a lot going on in my life at the moment.
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I have a bedroom that's totally tore up
because we had a leak under the floor for
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a long time, and we're trying to dry it
out, so my wood floor's been ruined and
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my skirting boards are now off, and yeah,
I'm just a bit overwhelmed by it all.
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And I have… 'Cause I have carers and
because I have lots of people in my
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life, everybody's telling me all their
expert views and sometimes I'm like,
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"Just leave me go." So space, that's
what I wanna talk about this week.
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But just before we go onto that, I want to
thank awesome people that donate, because
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it's you guys that keep the podcast free.
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It's you guys that make sure that
you only hear my voice and somebody
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isn't trying to sell you something.
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So thank you very much to Cheryl,
Nitya, Yvonne, Elena, Ryan,
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Karen, Lana, Jess, and Stuart.
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You guys are awesome, and I
always miss somebody, but I'll
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catch up with you next week.
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Just a huge, warm thank you.
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Hand on my heart, really appreciate
you, and I know my listeners do as well.
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If you cannot donate, always
leave a review, share the podcast.
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It all helps somebody.
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Somebody out there needs to
hear it, and you might be the
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only conduit to passing that on.
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So I was talking to my daughter recently,
and I realized that virtually everything
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she said, whether it was on the phone
or in person, I wanted to jump straight
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in and answer and give her my thoughts.
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And I'm really trying not to do that.
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I've been trying not to do that for
about four or five years now, and I
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still find it very difficult, especially
when we're so close to them because
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we want to solve their problems.
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We don't like seeing them suffer.
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But what I've realized is if we just
pause and give space, that space is so
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much opportunity, not only for them to
think through the solutions, because
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very often we know the solutions.
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We know what we should be doing.
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We just need that someone to give us space
to be able to calculate and work it out.
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And I also think this is the same for
our own heads and our own feelings.
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And very often in meditation, I say,
"Whatever arises, do nothing with it."
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And what I mean by that is just have
that bit of space after it arises,
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and sometimes that thought or that
feeling and emotion, just disappears
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by itself without any lasting story.
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We don't have to go down some kind
of deep rabbit hole or deep story
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like we do think all the time.
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That's just evolution trying
to protect us in the future.
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If we can make sense of the thought,
make sense of the emotion, make sense
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of what our friend is going through,
or that driver that chops us up, or
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that person that shouts, or whatever
is happening, that two-year-old crying.
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If we can just give that a little
bit of space, afterwards, we can
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look at it and go, "Ah, that's what
was happening." But it is really
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difficult when we really care, and
we wanna fix it, and we wanna help.
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It's really difficult when it's
ourselves and our own thought
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because we wanna step in.
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We wanna criticize the thought
like, "Well, that's dumb.
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That's stupid.
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That's ridiculous." Or we're
like, "Yeah, that's a good idea.
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I'll go with that one," thinking,
how is it gonna work out?
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So just space, and very often just
enough pause for maybe two breaths or
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just one breath sometimes is enough
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Sometimes the musician needs to go quiet
because it's the, the gaps between the
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notes and the gaps between the words
are just as important as the words.
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With no gaps and no space between
thoughts and space between feelings,
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everything becomes so blurred.
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And with a bit of practice, we can all
do this, and I think it's one of the
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most profound things we can learn to do.
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Just give it three seconds after
your friend finishes talking.
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Just give it a couple of seconds
after that emotion arises.
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When you look at an item, don't jump
to a story of, "I wanna buy that,"
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or, "Why is that here?" Or, "Who
put that there?" Just see the item
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Just become aware of the thought.
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Just become aware of
the breath, the feeling.
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You know, even if you just have an itch
on your body, just, "Ah, there's an itch."
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I'm not saying in a couple of seconds'
time you don't have to itch it, but it
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gives us that space to do it mindfully.
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And I genuinely believe, I believe
this really in my whole bottom of my
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heart, that if we have enough wisdom
within ourselves, we've had million
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year- millions of years of evolution,
we've got so much experience within
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every atom of our body, that when we
do give it space, things often solve
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themselves or didn't need solving
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And it's even in council meetings, I
sit there sometimes and emotions coming
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forward or something's happening and
I'm like, I wanna stick up my hand.
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I always go with the intention
of not saying anything.
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I'm gonna be the wise one in the
room that doesn't say anything.
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But I'm always that, "No, I wanna prove
to people that I'm intelligent, that I
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can see this, that I've got the answer
to this. That I can see something
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that perhaps none of you can." But
when I sit there and shut up, very
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often the council come to their own
conclusions very much in the same way
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as I might have wanted to do anyway.
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Or I can change my mind because
someone says something and I go,
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"Oh, that's, that's interesting. I
didn't see that." And you also give
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the opportunity for others to shine.
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It's the o- one of the things I
enjoyed about being mayor was You
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could not have an apolitical opinion.
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You had the final casting vote
if it was ever tied 50/50,
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and you had a vote anyway.
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You just hope it never
went down to the 50/50.
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But it's not your job as chair of
the council to put your opinion.
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It's your job to make sure everybody has
a firm voice, everybody's said their bit,
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and it's debated to the length that needs
to be to come to an informed decision.
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If only we could do that in our
everyday life with our families.
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Just imagine sitting around that table
at a barbecue or at the Christmas
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dinner and going, "Right, we all just
come to this informed, wise decision."
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Not gonna happen in my family.
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We're all too way opinionated.
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We're all too way trying to
prove to each other that we're
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the ones with the knowledge.
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Please see me.
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See me.
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I'm here.
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I know this.
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That's why we argue with our family
so much, 'cause we're trying to prove
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to our family that, "Hey, look, I
have grown up to this wise person.
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I do know this. I do know more than
you," 'cause we're trying to compete.
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It's a good evolutionary thing
to do, to compete with your
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family in a safe container.
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But do we always have to do it?
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Do we always have to compete?
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No, we don't
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And the instinct to help is not wrong.
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It's, it's a nice way of being, and
sometimes we do need to step in and help.
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But nothing's harming in just giving that
bit of space, that little bit of pause.
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Says, says, "Can I step in at the
right time when I need to?" Because
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if we allow our minds or our feelings
or someone else's minds or feelings or
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their dilemma, if we allow them to solve
it, if we allow them to come to the
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conclusion, very often it's more powerful.
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It's like when someone decides to
give up smoking or give up alcohol
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or a bad vice, it's so much more
powerful when they decide to
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do it rather than someone else
trying to convince them to do it
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But fixing something very
often, when we're trying to fix
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something, is our own discomfort
that we're trying to get rid of.
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If we're sitting with someone with
problems, we're uncomfortable because
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the fact that they're suffering
spills over onto our discomfort.
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So if we fix it, we then
don't feel so uncomfortable.
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Then that's a not such
an obvious one to see
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Very much sometimes that can
be really disguised if we
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don't have that self-awareness.
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And I don't see it a lot of time.
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I don't think, well, what someone else
is going through is really, doesn't
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affect me, I'm just trying to help them.
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But it does affect me in that
moment, and it does affect me if
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I leave there thinking I haven't
done my best to try to help them
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And we don't wanna feel powerless.
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We don't want them to make a mistake.
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We don't wanna sit back and see them go
down in the wrong direction because we
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think we've already seen that direction.
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And sometimes from the outside,
yeah, we can see more, but sometimes
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we definitely cannot see as much
as what they can see, if only we
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give them a little bit of space.
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And you may feel sometimes that
giving them space or staying
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quiet is like abandoning them.
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It's like as if we're being cold.
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But it's not.
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Giving space is not walking away.
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It's not coldness.
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It's not neglect.
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You know, it's not the silent punishment.
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Real space says, "I am
here and I trust you.
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I trust your wisdom.
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I am listening to you.
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I recognize that whatever you're
going through is not the same as what
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I'm going through, although there
may be similarities." It's hearing
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them, which is very often important.
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How often do we not feel heard?
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And just by giving that few seconds space,
that really does help them to feel heard.
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And why does this matter spiritually
and really on the practical level?
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So meditation tells us to sit with our
own inner world, whatever's arising, and
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the same skill should apply to the outside
world, the current situation, the room
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full of people, the room with the animals.
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Even our animals need that bit of
space to… Have you, if you've ever
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spent much time with a cat or a dog,
you have to really give them time.
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You say something, and you have to
give them time to turn their head on
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the side to really hear what you said,
to give it real careful consideration,
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instead of just repeating it.
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And then with this space, we can
also choose whether or not help is
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actually needed or whether or not that
space is just the deeper help itself.
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We let whatever it is
on our minds to breathe.
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We let the body to feel.
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We allow it to happen.
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The body is way wiser than our minds
are, and our minds have access to way
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more wisdom than we think it does.
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Very often when we're moaning to somebody
else, we either just wanna be heard
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or we want someone else to hear our
calculations, our thought patterns,
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and see whether or not we're justified
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So here are three practical things,
questions that you can ask yourself
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that if, if you ask it before you
approach a person or when things
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are happening is, am I helping or am
I trying to reduce my own comfort?
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Am I trying to prove to
them that I know an answer?
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Have I listened long enough
for their own wisdom to appear?
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And what would it look like
if it had more space in it
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What would love look like if it had
more space in it, more acceptance?
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Space is a form of accepting this
moment, and it's like saying, "I am here.
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I trust you.
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00:13:10,137 --> 00:13:11,077
Take your time.
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I am here.
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I trust you.
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00:13:14,147 --> 00:13:18,357
Take your time." So where
does this not apply?
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Now, of course, we're no therapist.
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You know, if you are a therapist
and you are fully trained in
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00:13:24,817 --> 00:13:29,457
this, please trust your training
over mine every day of the week.
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I'm not a therapist.
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I'm just someone that has suffered a lot
and found ways to reduce my suffering
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and found ways to accept and love
the people around me a little more.
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But it doesn't apply if someone's
unsafe, vulnerable, or in situations
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where things are dangerous.
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You know that.
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You know there's a big difference.
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You don't have to give
space in those moments.
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But most of the time we're
not in anything like that.
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Most of the time we're just in
a conversation that needs space.
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That conversation in our heads,
that conversation of what
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happens when a feeling arises.
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And if we do give space, it stops
us spiritually bypassing, and I've
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spoken about that in the past.
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We can talk ourselves out or into
how brilliant we are spiritually, how
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brilliant we're doing, how much work
we've done, and how wonderful we're doing.
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You know, I've, I've yet to find
anybody that's done all the work.
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I've yet to find anybody that's
enlightened and doing brilliantly all
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day long and never makes mistakes.
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So yeah, you're in good company if you're
only enlightened about 30 seconds a day.
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You're doing well . You're doing
better than me, I would say.
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So, okay, Slowly rewind it back.
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Isn't it important just to give
your feelings, your thoughts, the
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moment, your group, your friend,
your relative, your animal, whoever,
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just that little bit of space?
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Even if it's only three seconds.
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Have a three-second rule.
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I'm not talking about
toast falling on the floor.
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I'm saying, "Have I given this three
seconds?" 'Cause most of our problems,
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most of the things we think about,
most of the problems that our friends
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sometimes want to share with us,
there's already solutions to them
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or they don't need solving at all.
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We just need to give it space.
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Just like the gap in the music,
just like the space at the
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top and bottom of the breath.
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Space, that's the word this week.
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So I don't know if you receive
my weekly Calm Newsletter.
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If you don't, head over to stevenwebb.uk.
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And as with my Inner Peace Meditations,
all these podcasts come free because
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of very generous and lovely listeners
that donate a coffee to me each week.
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As the listeners go up, the hosting
and all does come more expensive, and I
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really appreciate them being able to keep
them completely free with no adverts.
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That's my intention and I'm never
gonna change from that as far as
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I can at least cover the costs.
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So thank you so much to
each and every one of you.
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Take care, guys, and have a
wonderful week, and I love you